Is Wintermute still around? Pistol question

[Tache]

What is the best 9mm Pistol?

For some reason my friend is getting a concealed weapons permit and also wants to buy a new or refurb pistol, preferably one that can be concealed well.

He was thinking of getting a Sig Sauer P229.

Please advise

[Bleedo]

I've personally fired the P22 series SIG before (It was a P226) and can attest to their design and accuracy... He won't go wrong with the P229. Beretta also makes a really good 9mm, namely the 92 series. If your friend has big hands he might like Glock also, but they generally have more plastic parts than SIG or Beretta, which turns some people off (including me, plastic on a gun scares me).

Just my 2 cents.

[Caslon]

If there is a compact model almost any caliber can be concealed, sig is well known for making reliable weapons. However I would recommend considering a .40 model or better, for accuracy and stopping power. imo 9mm doesn't really stop much unless he will be using modified rounds which probably require a permit as well. However it might not matter on caliber as much as what fits for the shooter, and it comes down to placement of the shots.

[Fess_bfs]

Makarov kicks ass.
Very light and agile gun.
As everything els that made in Russia rugged and easy in use and care.
Every time you pull trigger you saying in your mind DIE CAPITALIST BASTARD!!! :-)

[greekrefugee]

I'd agree with Caslon about the 9mm, unless your friend is dead-set on it. Berettas and the HK USP are both quality handguns. Iirc, the USP has a compact model with a lighter trigger pull and a shorter trigger reset, for faster followup shots. I'm not sure if your friend is getting the gun for work, personal safety, or what, but there are a variety of models for each need. I'd avoid the Glock, unless you're a cop that doesn't go to the range enough. Most serious handgun users will steer you away from the Glock. Then there is also the 1911 for that classic feel. The SIG P226 is a pretty sick handgun, and comes in 9mm, 40 and .357. It almost replaced the 1911, but Beretta won out on cost (with the 92F I think?). It's definitely a reliable and accurate handgun.

[Azurai]

HK, Sig, good manufacturers. Best thing, just shoot them at a range esp if you aren't investing in a custom grip.

Glocks, meh feel cheap.

[Ryowen]

I am partial to the Beretta 92F 9mm, partly because I own one, but it is just a nice weapon overall. As caslon said, if you want more stopping power without giving up accuracy then upgrade to a .40 model. If this is your friend's first handgun, I would suggest a 9mm for better accuracy from the recoil and a Beretta is an awesoem weapon.

I've fired Glock, S&W, Beretta and Springfield Armory handguns before and I like the Beretta the best. just remember, stupid people and guns don't mix!

[Leica]

just remember, stupid people and guns don't mix!

Your wall can testify to that.

[Tache]

It's really for fun. I guess mainly personal protection, might keep it in his car. The concealed weapons permit states that you cannot see the bulge or that you are carrying a gun.

Does that help? With this info please recommend a few specific models, thanks!

[Fatfatty]

My whole point on this issue is go with a glock. All these other guns are nice but a bit heavy in some models. Most concealed weapons are more for show then anything. glock is light and easier to carry then any other gun, why do you think alot of cops use them. Cuz very seldom if ever you will use it. Plus up keep on the glock is alot easier then on a metal gun. Unless going with stainless but then still there is alot of upkeep to it. Fingerprints cause havoc to a gun unless properly oiled.

Caliber is up to the consumer. 9mm isnt made for stopping power, they were made for max round capacity. With new laws in effect not sure in your area but in Cali all handguns can not hold more then 8 rounds unless bought pre ban. Pre ban 9 will hold around 16 rounds. 45 is gonna knock someone to the ground if it hits there ear lobe. In competition shoots most use 45cals for knocking power, since a 9mm wont put a plate down. 10mm or a 40cal would be better then a 9mm imo.

But I have to say having a weapons permit is one way to get yourself in a lot of trouble and can become a problem. Just get used to letting any law enforcement you comfront know you are carrying and better damn well have your card with you. And if that gun gets out of your hands , you are liable. One of the biggest problems with weapons permits in the US is Branishing a firearm. Which will not only get your permit taking but will get you a nice ride in the back of a car with some nice shinny bracelets.

Having the permit just says you can carry it concealed. If you pull it out you might as well use the fucker . same punishment.

[Aurun]

Ya my dad has been using a glock 45 for the last 3yrs or so i think as law enforcement. Like gary said he only uses it 4 times a yr pretty much to qualify but he seems to be taking to it well. Took forever to get him to give up the old revolver though haha~

[Azurai]

The problem with the glock and the 9mm phenomenon is simply a matter of philosophy. Besides at a range, I would never draw a gun unless I intended to kill someone. However, 9mm does not stop everyone and its very easy for it to glance off something like a windshield, etc. If you don't rob banks and prefer two in the chest, one in the head to spraying bullets or shooting legs like a gangster, 9mm can leave you at a serious disadvantage.

I agree with fatty, but from a compact standpoint, sig makes excellent compact .40 and .45 models.

[greekrefugee]

Honestly, if you shoot someone with a 9mm, they're going to be hurting. If it's just for fun and some protection, I'd go any compact model. The upkeep on a Glock isn't bad. You can field strip that thing in like 8 seconds. Concealed carry IS a huge pain in the ass. In CT the gun can't show at all. Women have it easier, as they can just have it in a zippered compartment in their purse. Like my ex's mother, who had a 357 in her purse. Ah, the valley.

Most people will never have to use them, and many find that they can't when faced with a situation that requires them to. So I'd recommend he gets some serious training. Not just the safety course for his permit, but someone that knows wtf they're doing, and can teach drawing technique, grouping, firing under pressure, etc. The biggest thing to get over is the gun ego. Certain people just shouldn't have a gun. Period. Keeping it in the glove compartment is dicey. If you have time to get it out of your glove, you have time to drive away. Plus, if the car gets jacked, gg another clean gun on the market that you're responsible for. Home protection is one thing. You can store that safely, and get at it fairly quickly.

If he really HAS to carry, check out the USP compact or some Glock models.

[Wintermute]

Well Tache, "best pistol" is subjective to its use. That being said your friend seems to have done his research. A 229 is a great carry pistol, I've fired just about every modern automatic pistol worth owning before I decided to buy one as my CCW piece and I decided on the 226. Its bigger than its cousin but I found I like the way it behaves when I fire it. In comparison to Glocks, Berettas, and the HK series of weapons its far and away the better performer.

Ignore this stuff about stopping power, there really is no such thing. What counts, and most especially in self defense, is shot placement. Ideally your friend should be looking for the largest round he can QUICKLY and ACCURATELY place on target.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

If you're really interested read the above, its a fairly good summary of handgun wound effects. In terms of ballistic performance, the .357 SIG aka. .357 Auto is probbably the best round on the market. Some of you may be saying, "well what about the 10mm or the .40 huh smart guy? They carry the same energy!" Thats true, but in general they're lower velocity and more importantly they're not bottlenecked. And frankly if I am carrying a weapon to save my life I don't want even the smallest risk of a misfeed. Bottlenecked cartriges will always feed better.

That said I have my 226 chambered in 9mm and keep it loaded with Winchester Ranger Talon +p+, simply because I shoot better with a 9 and the Ranger Talon is really top of the heap for any pistol load. If you're friend wants something light and concealable the 229 is the way to go. If he's a bigger guy like me the 226 might be a better choice... that or the 220 if he's got a hardon for .45. I carry my 226 with an ITP holster and its not really notacable unless I am wearing a tight shirt, or people are really looking. You do need a thick belt for that though, as the weight sorta pulls your pants to one side.

Long story short: SIG=WIN if your friend hasn't tried shooting them yet, have him compare the two and see which he likes best.

[Fatfatty]

i disagree on ignoring stopping power. Most the time in Self defense, placement shots are not gonna be there. If someone is coming for you , you are not gonna have alot of time to pull out that gun aim and shoot. You want to pull and shoot. It isnt a target, you dont get points for patterns. Your main object is to stop him from advancement. Also in most cases the other guy isnt gonna be over 10ft from you so pattern is void. once you stop him then you can place any shot you want where you want. And if you think there is no such thing as stopping power, there are several reviews and reports in Special Weapons and Tactics Magazine ( issue May 88 ) to name one i am reading atm.

He should goto a shooting range in your area. The range here you can rent any gun you want and try them out. I made a mistake and bought a Ruger p89 pre ban without trying it out. After shooting it i didnt care for the feel. Autos are nice but i still like the feel of a revolver.

Not sure with other makes and models but if you like 9mm high capacity mags. One way to get around the ban with Ruger is to use a 40cal clip to get your high capacity mag, takes a small bit of machine work ( opening a hole in clip just a bit bigger witha file to catch the p89 locking assembly).This or buy a used pre ban 9mm.