Big changes to warriors

Sebboh · Post by **Sebboh** » June 28th, 2005, 11:22 pm

Warriors received some interesting stuff with this new patch.

Firstly, in duels warriors can no longer get a charge off because as soon as the duel starts, you're instantly in combat. This is both a good and a bad thing. Good in that warriors are cheaping each other out of charges, and bad because it slows rage generation for MS warriors, which I suppose for me, is a good thing.

MS warriors get a nice buff to improved hamstring (which seemingly procs a lot, it has in two out of 3 or 4 duels against warriors so far), where as fury warriors get shafted...again. First of all, bloodthirst in 1.5 was pretty bad. If you successfully attacked a target within 15 seconds of a kill that would or did grant experience, you'd do double damage (if you missed you'd lose bloodthirst). Now it's even worse.

There are now 3 ranks of bloodthirst. for 30 rage, you hit once for 30% of your melee attack power, and then (at rank 3) for the next 5 hits, gain 20 hp/hit. You have 8 seconds to get these 5 hits in mind you, which is not long, even for DW warriors. The problem is, DW warriors have paltry attack power anyways because we're going for agility/stam and crit chance, not strength so we do crap damage with this talent on the first hit. Then I can get an extra 100 hp in if i manage to get 5 successful hits off in the following 8 seconds. DW warriors have a 25% chance to miss supposedly, although I don't notice it, plus we're dodged, parried and blocked a lot. All for 30 rage. Woohoo! not.

the new Berserker rage seems nice, but I don't know how to include it into my current build...which is:

Arms (17):

3 imp heroic Strike
3 imp rend
2 imp parry
2 tactical mastery
3 deep wounds
2 imp overpower
2 impale

Fury (34):

5 cruelty
5 imp demo shout
1 Peircing howl
4 imp battleshout
5 DW spec
5 Enrage
2 imp intercept
1 Deathwish
5 flurry
1 Bloodthirst

This spec needs a bit of tweaking obviously. the new bloodthirst is garbage, and can be better spent in imp berserker rage. I want to take 2 out of imp parry and put 2 more into tactical mastery.

Ok back to duels~ :?

Edit:
DW is soooooo frustrating right now. If I get an MS warrior below 80%, they suck or are extremely under equipped. No charge = I have to sacrifice a few hundred hp to gain 20 rage so I can start using key abilities against any class. I think IMP berserker rage mig.ht be a must now.

Also, someone on vent was syaing the WSG battle master was only in Darnassus. there's also one in IF at the same place as the AV guy.

Baker · Post by **Baker** » June 29th, 2005, 9:55 am

What you want to do is try using really fast weapons. You'll build rage much faster. When I farm, I usually DW hanzos because I build a ton of rage which makes things just go faster (also the hanzos look really cool). And I'm not DW specced either, I'm protection specced

Sebboh · Post by **Sebboh** » June 29th, 2005, 11:29 am

I'm using Dawns edge, 2.1 atk speed, and a green axe with 8stam/agil, 2.3 atk speed. I can build a lot of rage real fast if i just get one crit early on. Once that first crit comes, it's pretty much nonstop rage from there. With a 22.6% crit in battlestance, I get a crit every 5 hits theoretically. I'm shooting for a 28% crit however so I can proc flurry almost every 3 hits.

Baker · Post by **Baker** » June 29th, 2005, 12:09 pm

One of the specs I was looking at is more of a weird hibrid for DW'ing.

Fury Mastery
Cruelty Rank 5
Unbridled Wrath Rank 5
Blood Craze Rank 3
Improved Battle Shout Rank 5
Dual Wield Specialization Rank 5
Enrage Rank 5
Death Wish Rank 1
Improved Intercept Rank 2
Flurry Rank 5
Fury Total: 36

Arms Mastery
Deflection Rank 5
Improved Charge Rank 2
Tactical Mastery Rank 5
Improved Overpower Rank 2
Anger Management Rank 1
Arms Total: 15

Sebboh · Post by **Sebboh** » June 29th, 2005, 5:58 pm

I can't decide whether unbridled wrath is worth it. Someone on the warrior forums apparently found that using Improved battleshout generates more rage over time than UW, but he didn't back it up with equations. It's difficult to say. I suppose if i really wanted to I could do it...

I just need to know how much rage is generated per hit for different speed and damage dealing weapons.

shalashaska · Post by **shalashaska** » June 29th, 2005, 9:12 pm

u guys can suck my ass, i dont like being immoblize by warrior with a reaper, gfg, glad to see the nerf on rogues w/ new first aid :)

Dniym · Post by **Dniym** » June 30th, 2005, 12:48 am

My duel wield fury build was 15 arms 36 fury.

I didn't get improved heroic strike because my build generated more than enough rage.

Arms
5 in Deflection
2 in Imp charge
2 in Imp OP
5 in tactical mastery
1 in Anger management

Fury
5 in Cruelty
5 in Unbridled Wrath
1 in Piercing Howl
3 in Blood Craze
4 in Imp Battle Shout
2 in Imp Execute
5 in Enrage
1 in Death Wish (OMG I LOVE DW)
2 in Imp Intercept
2 in Imp Berserker Rage
5 in Flurry
1 in Bloodthirst

Dueling Kold I'd lose with him at around 40-50% life. Probably more if Imp Hampstring procs (that duel was interrupted by WSG call). I dueled Hitz with pretty good results (although I'm not sure what spec he had at the time) using this build as well.

For PvP, Imp Heroic Strike is a waste IMO. I'd build tons of rage between Unbridled Wrath, Improved Berserker Rage, and the duel weild build itself (Flurry pwnz). The only class I'd say I'd have a harder time using this build than MS is other warriors, solely due to being outstraffed easily. Warlocks and priests = GG with 2 fear immunities, though.

The only thing I might change with this build is to sac 1 point in Imp Charge for the last Battle Shout point, only because that would mean more Bloodthirst damage. My arms build actually sac'ed that charge point for full improved hamstring, and I don't really have trouble getting a MS off the initial charge anyways.

Altho, having tested it out, I may end up trying 3 points in Imp HS for pure PvE damage, altho for the most part in duels I was just spamming Bloodthirst/ whirlwind much like a MS build....

Baker · Post by **Baker** » June 30th, 2005, 8:07 am

I kind of think Bloodthirst is a waste of a talent point if you're going to Duel Wield. My reasoning is that it's just one hit (main hand only I believe), right after you kill a mob, and the damage you do is not terribly amazing when using a 1h weapon. It's potential is awesome if you're using a 2h weapon, but in PVE it's basically useless because in the end game content you're not attacking things that fast so the 8 seconds will almost always run out before the next pull. In PVP, unless there are 2 or more guys on you it's useless (same reasoning). If you do have 2 guys on you, I think it could be helpful if you turn and smack the second guy and crit for something nice, but that is situational. The only time it comes in really handy is when you're farming. I think a DW build is going to be the gold farmer's choice of builds because you can fly through mobs quite well and do enough damage to really farm effectively (maybe better than rogues and mages

). I don't know, what do you guys think?

Sebboh · Post by **Sebboh** » June 30th, 2005, 12:24 pm

I should see how it is farming tyr's hand with bloodthirst.

BTW, did anyone see how it was in BG?

Dniym · Post by **Dniym** » June 30th, 2005, 2:35 pm

Baker wrote:I kind of think Bloodthirst is a waste of a talent point if you're going to Duel Wield. My reasoning is that it's just one hit (main hand only I believe), right after you kill a mob, and the damage you do is not terribly amazing when using a 1h weapon.

I believe we're discussing post-patch. Bloodthirst is now an instant attack that does 1/3 of your attack power (250-300 generally) and heals you for 20hp for your next 5 hits within the next 8 seconds. 6 second cooldown, 30 rage to use.

Sebboh:
After reading your post I hopped on test and ran over to Nox Glade. I was doing around 200-300dps with some time around the 400dps area on huge critstrings or Hand of Justice procs. In CTF I was doing pretty well, as the improved intercept and deathwish are godsend around warlocks/ priests. Compared to my Mortal Strike/ Sword spec, I'm doing about the same constant damage, but I think ultimately between huge MS crits, an 8% chance for an extra attack (6% sword spec 2% trinket) and a more reliable chance to hit (missing a Bloodthirst swing SUCKS), the Mortal Strike build wins. It would be interesting to parse a Fury warrior on a raid vs. a similarly equipped Arms warrior post-patch. I'd do it but my respecs are already getting pretty costly...

Baker · Post by **Baker** » June 30th, 2005, 2:52 pm

Dniym wrote: I believe we're discussing post-patch. Bloodthirst is now an instant attack that does 1/3 of your attack power (250-300 generally) and heals you for 20hp for your next 5 hits within the next 8 seconds. 6 second cooldown, 30 rage to use.

Interesting. I must have missed that part of the patch notes. That's not bad. I'm thinking about leveling another warrior to do the DW stuff, since I'm mostly Protection now. I will have to keep that in mind. :)

shalashaska · Post by **shalashaska** » June 30th, 2005, 11:33 pm

i hope tyraff gets gnomish nut cancer, i was dueling him, i was at half life, then no life...nerf warriors :)