@Reedu - OS Whelps question

[Urduro]

Hey Reedu!

If you don't mind sharing, what is your strategy for picking up whelps in OS, either 10 or 25 man? Our DK's are having a bit of trouble and I'd just like to see your insight seeing as how you've successfully pulled it off (no tank pun intended).

- Undo, Ord DK - Civilian

[Reedu]

There's a lot going on so it's easy to waste taunt/grip. Sometimes a bunch of things happen at once, and you have to be ready to use all the aggro tools in an unholy DK's arsenal. It's really important that you save taunt/grip for emergencies.

Situational awareness and positioning yourself in advance so that you can taunt/grip quickly is also important. It can be hard to see the entire map at all times, but you have to always know everything that's going on. You can't save a healer from an enraged blaze that you don't know exists.

Further specifics will depend mostly on your raid's positioning and kill order.

P.S. Glyph of anti-magic shell is really powerful against the blazes. =)

P.P.S. Don't taunt Sartharion by accident. Your healers will yell at you. =(

[Champ]

P.P.S. Don't taunt Sartharion by accident. Your healers will yell at you. =(

And call you a stupid cunt.

[Urduro]

Thanks for the tip on the Glyph Reedu! Also, what other glylphs do you use and why? Do you find yourself having to switch glyphs for different encounters constantly, or do you have a set list of glyphs? With Dual Spec coming (which will also have dual glyphs as I understand) do you find yourself having two different tank specs with two sets of tank glyphs, or a dps spec and a tank spec?

And one last question for the moment, as an Unholy Tank, do you keep your pet ghoul in the fray or do you keep him out of harms way for Death Pact in case you need it?

Thanks again!

[Reedu]

Hmm, I forgot about this cause I didn't have time to answer it what I first saw it. Sorry!

Also, what other glylphs do you use and why?

Major:
bone shield - overpowered ability becomes more op
icebound fort
anti-magic shell - for sartharion

Minor:
pestilence - aoe tanking
horn of winter - nothing better
raise dead - nothing better

Once the corpse explosion changes hit live, I'll probably pick up the corpse explosion minor glyph instead of raise dead.

Do you find yourself having to switch glyphs for different encounters constantly, or do you have a set list of glyphs?

It isn't currently necessary to optimize glyphs on a per-encounter basis. If the content was harder I'd definitely swap out the situational glyphs as necessary. Right now, for tanking, I just use the ones above.

With Dual Spec coming (which will also have dual glyphs as I understand) do you find yourself having two different tank specs with two sets of tank glyphs, or a dps spec and a tank spec?

Eh, hard to say. I'll pick whatever two specs I'm using the most. If I can manage to find some PvP teams, I'll probably have a tank spec and a PvP spec. If not, it'll probably be tank and dps.

And one last question for the moment, as an Unholy Tank, do you keep your pet ghoul in the fray or do you keep him out of harms way for Death Pact in case you need it?

There's not currently any fights where I need extra cooldown and have a safe spot to put him. I usually just have him DPS or don't bother summoning him if it's a fight where he dies within a few seconds. Sartharion 10 man 3 drakes is the only fight where I'd want the extra cooldown, but unfortunately poor Pebblebender doesn't live very long on that encounter. It'll be nice once Night of the Dead gives 70% aoe reduction.

[Urduro]

As of now, Unholy obviously is the tanking spec of choice. When patch hits (which may be today, I'm at work so I have no idea), Bone Armor's mitigation gets hit big time to a wobbly 20% from 40%. Also, Frost Presence gets "buffed" *cough bullshit* to 80% extra armor and 15% magic damage from 60% and 5% respectively, etc etc.

With the new changes coming, how do you see your spec changing? Also, how hard of a time was it for you to hit 540 defense? I'm starting to get a good amount of Naxx gear myself and am still having a problem hitting that cap. Once patch hits, the 25 extra defense will help out a boatload though. Do you see DW'ing as a possibility? Blues are posting that according to their "internal testing" that DW'ing isn't bad at all. I can come up with viable DW'ing tank specs myself, but the problem still comes back to being parried and sub sequentially eating it hard.

[Tojara9]

How is a Frost Presence buff 'bullshit'? I haven't healed for ages but I guarantee that healers prefer a much smoother damage curve then one that goes up and down constantly.

I can't see how anybody would even think to spec something different then unholy currently (for tanking). It's a good move for the game to nerf unholy some so that the other trees are also just as viable. In the grand scheme of things unholy really isn't even being nerfed considering the changes to frost presence. I personally can't wait for the additional 10% magic reduction that frost presence will be giving along with the additional 20% armor contribution from items (which is nice on it's on, though the 10% magic reduction is the thing I am most excited about).

I still wouldn't dual wield just because death knights look like massive homos doing so, not to mention that parry accelerated attacks still exist in this game today. If you're having problems reaching the defense cap I suggest making use of the lesser flask of toughness until patch day (which will make it trivial). Using the flask you don't have to restrict yourself to gemming solely for defense and instead you can focus on other things. You gain more health gemming for stamina (to a degree, you will still need to gem for defense in some slots) using this flask then the alternative of gemming for defense to make use of the 650 health flask. Of course like mentioned this will all be moot come patch day, or if you're lucky enough to get a repelling charge from Thaddius in 10 man naxx.

I still won't be changing specs come patch day as I think Unholy still is the superior spec. Nothing that does physical damage (currently) is much of a threat so I value things like unbreakable armor far less then bone armor. Although it's going to be nerfed to 20% reduction it is still a 20% reduction on all attacks and most importantly it reduces magic damage taken by 20%. The only raid mobs/bosses that are dangerous currently make use of powerful magical attacks that *can* one shot your tank, therefore bone armor is still invaluable. Not to mention there are many other goodies littered throughout the tree.

[Reedu]

If I'm tanking as unholy, I would still pick up bone armor. My unholy tank spec won't really change. If anything, the patch will make it easier to try out other tanking specs.

Hitting 540 defense was pretty easy for me, I was defense capped 1.5 weeks after the expansion came out. Some reasons it was easy for me: we prioritize tank loot on new content + got a ton of tank drops the first week. I had a decent set of Naxx gear after a single Naxx run. I also leveled my professions (JC,BS) and fully gemmed/enchanted for defense early on. The epic jewelcrafting defense gems really helped.

DW tanking works, but it will never be an optimal tank spec while you tank bosses that could parry gib you. Personally, I always strive to have the optimal spec/gear, but the current content is so easy that it probably doesn't matter.

Regarding the frost pressence buff. I'll take the extra armor happily, tyvm!

(I actually wrote this before Tojara posted, but he said everything I was going to say. Bastard.)

[Tojara9]

You guys changed your vent!

Did Leica end up getting his nobles deck made?

[Leica]

Yeah we got like 5 of 'em made. I had mine like, 3 weeks before the faire showed up.

[Urduro]

I still won't be changing specs come patch day as I think Unholy still is the superior spec. Nothing that does physical damage (currently) is much of a threat so I value things like unbreakable armor far less then bone armor. Although it's going to be nerfed to 20% reduction it is still a 20% reduction on all attacks and most importantly it reduces magic damage taken by 20%. The only raid mobs/bosses that are dangerous currently make use of powerful magical attacks that *can* one shot your tank, therefore bone armor is still invaluable. Not to mention there are many other goodies littered throughout the tree.

But that's where I find the problem. I don't want a class where I can tank in every spec or where tanking abilities are thrown about 3 different trees, especially some abilities that are way down the tree (vampiric blood come patch day, bone armor, etc.). Buffing Frost Presence is fantastic, don't get me wrong I think it's great because no matter what spec we are we have to be in Frost Presence so it's a buff for tanking no matter what, however they almost did nothing to the actual frost tree talents and abilities to make it the most attractive for tanking. Most DK's will probably stick to Unholy and that's what I don't want. I want to want to be Frost, but Frost seems to be lackluster for damage and for tanking, so what's its purpose? However, me switching to Frost won't be happening as of now because I see that Unholy still seems like a better choice. And it's not only better in the beginning of DK tanking, but as you get more avoidance, Bone Armor starts to get better as you can keep it up for longer periods of time and are less prone to huge amounts of damage where you don't have it up, etc etc.

I guess it's just a small gripe of mine, and I know Blizz isn't finished with tweaking the DK talents and abilities (don't think they'll be done for a while now) but I wish that Frost was a bit better.

[Tojara9]

You probably shouldn't have rolled a DK if you wanted a class with defined talent trees.

Why should frost be the most attractive tanking spec? I don't know why people cling to "pvp tree, dps tree, and tanking tree" when every tree has the option of being either of those things (to an extent). Options are always a good thing to have. They should all be relatively equal with one spec being slightly preferred depending on the encounter and field (AoE, physical avoidance, threat, etc). This is what makes this class far more enjoyable then any other class I've played (been a rogue since release) and will keep it fun for a very long time.

Frost is a perfectly viable tanking spec (even with the current UA) and people typically exaggerate how much better unholy is when that is certainly not the case. It has better physical damage reduction and single target threat then unholy does. Unholy AoE is much easier to setup and far more consistent, but howling blast is a perfectly viable substitute. It basically comes down to what flavor you like more as both are perfectly viable. I just prefer Unholy (and Reedu probably does as well) simply because of the play style.

[Urduro]

I guess I never really looked at it that way, and you got a really good point with the exaggeration of Unholy vs Frost that some have. I mean, I've tried frost tanking, but I haven't truly given it a "college try" so to speak. I'll be thinking on that for a while.

Well, thank you very much anyway for all of your guys' input, I really didn't expect that much feedback, but it's very appreciated!

Also, WTB the Def trinket from HoL. Stupid thing hasn't dropped yet :(

EDIT: Also, I definitely know what you mean in terms of having a little bit more flavor now from a class. I raided as a mage for almost 3 years now, in addition to having played a rogue as well, and the variety really does grab me and keep things interesting.